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27 November 2006 @ 03:39 am
My Sociology Paper (on the topic of fanfiction)  
Ok, here's the deal: my Sociology paper--on the topic of fanfic, and specifically on the topic of the deviance of slash fiction--was supposed to be due last Tuesday. However, due to illness (mine, not the prof's), the deadline was extended indefinitely. Now, since I can only work under deadline, I'm totally procrastinating and not getting anything done. So, I need all of you, my fanfic-crazy friends (and other fic-reading-type people) to help me: call me, IM me, post a reply here, e-mail me, whatever. Just get me involved in a conversation that could theoretically have something vaguely to do with my paper. PLEASE. I beg you guys. Just...make me talk about fanfiction. Please?

Note: Real prizes, not virtual ones, will go to all people who help me. However, a) they will be cheap (i.e., cookies, not caddys), and b) they will be prizes of my choice (i.e., cookies, not sex; I know how some of my friends think!). Thanks in advance.

Abyssinia,
Barrie
 
 
Current Music: Deep Purple, "Smoke on the Water" dun-dun-dun dun-dun-da-dun
 
 
 
The Only Living Boy in New York: twitchnightstalker on November 27th, 2006 09:39 am (UTC)
Slash disturbs me. And many other heterosexual men. In ways that hardcore gay porn doesn't.

Why?

Talk amongst yourselves.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 09:51 am (UTC)
"Why" is a good question. Is it because it deals with--usually--strictly heterosexual men, and that threatens your self perception? "If these big, butch, straight skirt-chasers can fall for a guy, what chance do I have?" (This, by the way, was Larry David's argument for not seeing "Brokeback Mountain": Cowboys are my weakness.)Does it have to do with the romanticism of most slash fics, compared to the sex-only attitude of most gay porn? Or does it maybe have to do with the fact that slash fics deal with characters you, as a straight man, can relate to, and in some cases maybe even envy, whereas the "stars" of most gay porn are not characters at all, just bodies having sex with no reason behind them, other than that they feel like having sex? (And yes, there is a difference, though possibly subtle, between question one and question three.)

Discuss.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:37 am (UTC)
This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie
Helen W.wneleh on November 27th, 2006 11:29 am (UTC)
Someone on ts-writers (which, being a locked list, I'm not sure I should be mentioning, even though you're on it... ah, LJ etiquette, I'll figure it out some day) referenced someone else saying that slashers are born, not made. I sort of feel the same way about my smarm compulsion, which gets me back to wondering whether smarm and slash are on the same continuum (or can be) or are two separate things.

Another question - seeing how popular slash (as differentiated from commercial porn) is, why hasn't someone figured out a way to make money off of it? Or is it even possible?
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 01:25 pm (UTC)
To the first point: interesting, and amazingly enough, somewhat relevant to my paper: the main topic of my paper is the question of why slash is seen as deviant, when other, clearly non-canon fics (including the outer bounds of smarm, such as stories where Jim and Blair kiss on the lips, but aren't in the LEAST way ANYTHING other than 100% straight) are seen as being perfectly "clean" (even when they are more adult, and in some cases--like Sen--LESS canonical than a lot of G-rated slash). If you don't mind, I'd like to mention your smarm addiction (without using your name, obviously; I'd use whatever you wanted me to call you).

As to the second: While people obviously can't make money off actual fic (those pesky copyright things and such), it's been mentioned more than once that while male/male porn made by women, for women turns up not infrequently in slash fic, it doesn't actually seem to exist in the real world. So...would anyone like to start a company like this? A person could probably get a lot of free publicity via fic: if there really was a company like that, people would reference it in their fics, instead of using a made-up company, the same way that Scribe used the real RealDoll in her "My Boyfriend Is Inflatable" fics (and if RealDoll would make more boydolls, they'd probably get some business from people clicking on the links in her stories).
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:38 am (UTC)
This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie
Wiseacreewin on November 27th, 2006 11:53 am (UTC)
Go here and check out the links on yaoi and slash. My personal favorite is this one. Quote: "Slash written by women is defacto an extension of women's sexuality, not gay male sexuality. If Slash writers were pressured into writing their characters purely as gay men in gay relationships, I'd never read it, just as I don't read gay porn novels."

Have it done in the next week.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 01:27 pm (UTC)
Very interesting. Thanks for the link. *has to check it out more thoroughly before she can give a more in-depth thanks* But mostly, thanks for the deadline. It is muchly appreciated! *loves when her friends have the same deadline issues that she does, because they understand her needs so well*
Wiseacreewin on November 28th, 2006 01:27 am (UTC)
*nod and hug* Any time!
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:38 am (UTC)
This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie
Wiseacreewin on June 6th, 2007 02:29 pm (UTC)
Wishlist. Yup, it's big, but it's many years old as well. Heh, you inspired me to update it, too.

I also accept low-budget items such as recipes, baked goods, yadda yadda.
blackchapsblackchaps on November 27th, 2006 01:41 pm (UTC)
I used to read het - a lot of it. And then . . . I read my first slash story. Now I can't read het. It's like my brain has been reprogrammed. It worries me. Slash is evol.

Get it done!! I hate it when shit's hanging over my head.

Gee, I just realized that I had nothing to add to this thread.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 01:44 pm (UTC)
And it's official: blackchaps has just become the first person to answer this post who ISN'T getting a prize! Way to go, Blackchaps! :-D
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 01:45 pm (UTC)
Humph. LJ should prevent you from splitting up a smiley. From the above reply:

Way to go, Blackchaps! :-D
blackchaps: Beecher Fuckedblackchaps on November 27th, 2006 02:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah me!!!! Wait a damn minute! me likee da cookies. shit.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:40 am (UTC)
This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. However, you were (and still are) the only person to admittedly be of no help at all...but since you made me smile, point me in the direction of something you want (or something that will tell me what you want, like a "wish list" site), and I'll probably get it for you. (Hey, I maintain that it's a school expense!)

Abyssinia,
Barrie
blackchaps: BC on Chapsblackchaps on June 6th, 2007 03:59 am (UTC)
That's very sweet. I did nothing but irritate you and yet you're rewarding me. *makes note* I would like you to send me the pic on your banner. I don't have near enough Firefly pics on my hard drive. No cookiez, me fat.

*hugs* BC
Why all the pearls?Why all the hair?Why anything?rhymephile on November 27th, 2006 03:41 pm (UTC)
Perhaps you can also talk about the unique qualities of slash in that nearly 99.99% of its writers are women (generally het) and not gay men. Of course, one must also realize that most people who read fic are women as well, so the numbers make sense. I've rarely come across male writers in my years of writing fanfic, and one of the ones I did know wrote femslash.

Slash is such an interesting topic for a paper, too, because most people in the "real world" don't understand its popularity with readers.

You might also like to talk about the different genres of slash, such as S&M, bondage, spankings, etc, and as they pertain to different fandoms. I also think it's interesting to find that some people think slash is all the same, when it's quite varied. And you might also discuss the "squicks" of the genre: I, for instance, don't quite understand the popularity of either RPS or Harry Potter slash. But that's me.

Great topic; you have one week to finish or you get PerpSlammed.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 03:52 pm (UTC)
The female-to-male ratio thing is definitely going in, though I do happen to know a great guy slash writer (sexuality unknown, but I would doubt that he's straight from what he says, as opposed to writes) in the Diagnosis: Murder fandom.

As for the rest of it, some of that is going in, but in the main context which is--as I told wneleh--"Why is slash considered to be so 'deviant' when other, far more obviously anti-canon pairings AND 'uncommon' sexual practices are considered to be totally 'normal'?"

The squicks I'll get into another time. My professor already chose slash as a topic from a long list that included--among other things--a study on the relative deviance of various kinks and fetishes, and perceived by those in kink/fetish communities. So, considering he'd never even heard of fanfic before, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that he doesn't want to hear about the (very) few things that squick me out. ;-)

And dude: one week to finish, or I get PerpSlammed? Like, by Elliot? And that's supposed to motivate me to be a GOOD student? :-D
Why all the pearls?Why all the hair?Why anything?: Keller Fuck Yourhymephile on November 27th, 2006 04:06 pm (UTC)
And dude: one week to finish, or I get PerpSlammed? Like, by Elliot? And that's supposed to motivate me to be a GOOD student? :-D

*sharpens bed-spring shank instead*

Don't make go Keller on you.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 04:33 pm (UTC)
Scary-ass Keller, or puppy-dog, going-to-Massachusetts Keller? :-D
Why all the pearls?Why all the hair?Why anything?: Keller/Sister Peterhymephile on November 27th, 2006 04:47 pm (UTC)
Oh, definitely scary-ass Keller. With a side of manipulative Keller as well, in order to get you to finish.
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 04:50 pm (UTC)
Aw, you're no fun! *pouts, Keller-like*
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:41 am (UTC)
This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie
Why all the pearls?Why all the hair?Why anything?rhymephile on June 6th, 2007 11:54 pm (UTC)
Aww, thanks, but there's nothing I really need. Except maybe 3 months vacation!
Akinaakina16 on November 27th, 2006 05:45 pm (UTC)
well... I don't know really... I'm trying to get this in before I go to work... Um... What's your favourite slash pairing (aside from Jim/Blair) and why?
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on November 27th, 2006 06:04 pm (UTC)
Ooh, a brain teaser! Thanks!

WARNING: Spoilers for X-3 reside within. Not big ones, and there are alternate endings, but there are SPOILERS in here!

Hmm...my favorite non-J/B slash pairing...that's a good question. Maybe Jack/Daniel from Stargate, or Steve/Jesse from Diagnosis: Murder, or Scott (Cyclops)/Logan (Wolverine) from X-Men? And funnily enough, two out of three of these shows have a popular fanon pairing that ain't never gonna happen; that's even more unlikely than canon slash (canon slash outside of The Sentinel notwithstanding). Stargate has the shippers (sorry, but have y'all SEEN the "other" Sam? No WAY!*), D:M has the ever popular "No, really, this time the BOTW WASN'T a total psycho bitch! And she didn't die!" pairing (with Steve; poor Jesse is always left all to his lonesome.), and movieverse X-Men has Logan/Rogue, which...well, let's see. a) She's got Bobby, and I really don't think she's dumb enough to make Logan kill Bobby for love. b) while I really do think he has a "thing" for her, I also think that he knows it's a fantasy; the way he talks to her now is much more like a big brother or father would. And c) Honestly? Before the "cure" they never could have made it with her needing to be clothed all the time and him with, y'know, the claws that SHRED stuff, and after the cure, I just don't see him looking at her the same way for a while, because I really don't think he believes that she did it for herself.

*Not to mention, since one of the rants against slash is always "There's no canon evidence!"...people, would someone PLEASE tell me how there are people who are actually openminded (whatever that means these days) who honestly see more UST between Daniel and JANET than between Daniel and JACK? I mean, dude! One is the flirting you do with your doctor who you're a little bit scared of, and the other is the blushing, stammering adorableness you do with the guy you truly love. Not to mention the glasses thing! *huffs*

Oh yeah, and as for WHY I like those pairings...I think it's because all of them (except for Scott/Logan, which I freely admit is totally fanon, except for the flirty snarkiness and rivalry between them) work just as well or better as a couple than they do as not a couple. Jack and Daniel are way closer than friends should be, given their backgrounds, histories (two different things), current positions, etc., and Steve and Jesse...honestly, I see that one very much as a slow falling in love, much the way I see The Sentinel (except that I still don't get how anyone sees gen in The Sentinel). (But the Steve/Jesse thing only works if you ignore the last movie.) And I'm a sucker for the whole "slowly falling in love" thing. :-)

Wow, thanks akina! That was way helpful! *is making her list and checking it twice (and no, [Unknown LJ tag] still isn't on there!)*
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:41 am (UTC)
This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 03:44 am (UTC)
O.o I am a tad confused...
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 03:53 am (UTC)
*g*

In November of last year, I asked for help on LJ with a Sociology paper I had to write, and I offered up presents in return for help. But then I had no money, plus my professor was an asshole so I only just got my grade back last week, so it's taken until now for me to pay up. Don't worry about the details: just follow the instructions, and you'll do fine! :-D
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 04:08 am (UTC)
lol I think I'm even more confused NOW! LOL
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 04:32 am (UTC)
Try reading the whole thread. Here: http://mashfanficchick.livejournal.com/13323.html
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 04:52 am (UTC)
Ooooooooooooooooh... I remember >< I read it before and for some reason it wasn't clicking... Amazing what a cigarette can do >><< I still need to quit
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 05:01 am (UTC)
Amazing what a cigarette can do >><< I still need to quit

*rolls eyes* No, see, that would be a present for me! ;-)

Speaking of cigarettes...did Sarah leave? I was going to call her to say goodbye, but I haven't really been in a calling-people mood lately.
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 05:09 am (UTC)
No she's leaving on Saturday, I know she would absolutely love to hear from you. I would too but I can wait :p
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 05:20 am (UTC)
Oh, good! I really did want to call her to say goodbye. Plus, I wanna scan a piccie/filk from one of the zines I got at TF: Jim and Blair dressed as 1940's sailors, with the filk being about TS slash, to the tune of "New York, New York" from...oh, one of those 1940's sailor musicals! Sarah might remember which one. (I also have to remind her at some point that she owes me a few hundred dollars, but that can wait until she's, y'know, NOT about to go into the Navy!)

Speaking of which...I will definitely call you soon, but for now, if you wanna go to EMC in August, start planning! I don't think I can cover it, since you already owe me for TF. (I don't mind, I just can't really lay any more money out at the moment.)
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 05:23 am (UTC)
Our Town I think it's called... Got Frank Sinatra and Fred Astaire in it? I don't know how anything is going right now... I'm kinda in a tough spot money wise... My brother just had his birthday and criminey the gift he wanted was expensive >< I promise I'll pay you back as soon as I can...
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 05:29 am (UTC)
Or maybe On The Town? I think Our Town is the one with Emily Doowinkle, where *muffles the ending*.

Don't worry about the money, seriously; it can wait. (Now if you were Sarah, who owes me a few hundred...*g*) And the EMC price already passed the early reg date, so if you wind up being able to go, you can always register at the last minute, and it'll cost the same. I just meant that I can't cover anything except the room (because I'll have it anyway, though donations to the Room Fund are always accepted). Tell your brother happy b-day! :-)
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 05:35 am (UTC)
Yeah you're right it's On the Town (trust me I hate admitting when I'm wrong XD)

My only issue again is time off... I'm going to a convention in July and then two more in November (Micheal Shanks will have to wait till 08 for me) So I would like to go... But to be honest it's not high on my list of priorities... Although I really do want to go to Creation T.T (Not to mention the Farscape one that is going on the SAME weekend in CA...)... But it doesn't look like it's possible... I'll actually be lucky if I can go to even one of my two in October...
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 05:42 am (UTC)
Hey, no worries! I have my own crew at EMC! *g* I just didn't know whether or not you wanted to go, so I was just mentioning that I'm out as anybody's benefactor this time around. :-D

I don't think I'm going to go to Creation this year. I might, only because it being the last year and all, it might be more of the older stuff. But for the most part, I fell out of SG-1 fandom when RDA left, and I never really fell into Atlantis in the first place. (All of that said, if you do go, let me know; I might come along!)
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 05:45 am (UTC)
Very true... I dunno... It's hard being new to a fandom that everyone has been in for years >< I feel like I missed out... The only thing I'm really happy about is that they just started Firefly/Serenity conventions (well at least Creation did...) Which reminds me there is like NOTHING you can buy online for it... Stargate has shot glasses and T-Shirts... Firefly and Serenity have like nothing... How annoying...
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 05:51 am (UTC)
LOL, you do know that I hold the record for percentage of fandoms entered after the source material went off the air, don't you?! I think the only fandoms I ever got into while they were still in production are...hmm. SVU, SG-1 (sort of), and House (if you consider me to be in House fandom, which I'm really not). And even in Stargate, I got into it in the middle of Season 5, which at the time was essentially the end. :-D

As for Firefly cons...really? Creation is running Firefly cons? Wow. *wonders how long it'll take them to totally fuck them up* And there is stuff you can buy, just not anything (or much) licensed. I'll find the links to sites I know tomorrow.
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 05:55 am (UTC)
Yeah I've been looking online for weeks... I'm hesitant to buy T-Shirts before I try them on >< It's called the Firefly and Serenity Salute... How dumb ^^; creation is obviously not known for it's imagination... You should watch Dark Shadows... That's been off the air techincally for almost 30 years lol! They used to run reruns on the Sci-Fi channel at 11am for an hour... Best damn show EVER lol...
MASHFanficChickmashfanficchick on June 6th, 2007 05:58 am (UTC)
LOL my first fandom was M*A*S*H. People used to talk about how old they were when the finale aired, and I used to say I was "negative 1 year and three months" (the last episode aired in February of '83, and I was born in may of '84).
Akinaakina16 on June 6th, 2007 06:01 am (UTC)
LOL I couldn't even tell you how long ago Dark Shadows was XD... Something like 17 years or something lol