Slash disturbs me. And many other heterosexual men. In ways that hardcore gay porn doesn't.

Why?

Talk amongst yourselves.

"Why" is a good question. Is it because it deals with--usually--strictly heterosexual men, and that threatens your self perception? "If these big, butch, straight skirt-chasers can fall for a guy, what chance do I have?" (This, by the way, was Larry David's argument for not seeing "Brokeback Mountain": Cowboys are my weakness.)Does it have to do with the romanticism of most slash fics, compared to the sex-only attitude of most gay porn? Or does it maybe have to do with the fact that slash fics deal with characters you, as a straight man, can relate to, and in some cases maybe even envy, whereas the "stars" of most gay porn are not characters at all, just bodies having sex with no reason behind them, other than that they feel like having sex? (And yes, there is a difference, though possibly subtle, between question one and question three.)

Discuss.

This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie

Someone on ts-writers (which, being a locked list, I'm not sure I should be mentioning, even though you're on it... ah, LJ etiquette, I'll figure it out some day) referenced someone else saying that slashers are born, not made. I sort of feel the same way about my smarm compulsion, which gets me back to wondering whether smarm and slash are on the same continuum (or can be) or are two separate things.

Another question - seeing how popular slash (as differentiated from commercial porn) is, why hasn't someone figured out a way to make money off of it? Or is it even possible?

To the first point: interesting, and amazingly enough, somewhat relevant to my paper: the main topic of my paper is the question of why slash is seen as deviant, when other, clearly non-canon fics (including the outer bounds of smarm, such as stories where Jim and Blair kiss on the lips, but aren't in the LEAST way ANYTHING other than 100% straight) are seen as being perfectly "clean" (even when they are more adult, and in some cases--like Sen--LESS canonical than a lot of G-rated slash). If you don't mind, I'd like to mention your smarm addiction (without using your name, obviously; I'd use whatever you wanted me to call you).

As to the second: While people obviously can't make money off actual fic (those pesky copyright things and such), it's been mentioned more than once that while male/male porn made by women, for women turns up not infrequently in slash fic, it doesn't actually seem to exist in the real world. So...would anyone like to start a company like this? A person could probably get a lot of free publicity via fic: if there really was a company like that, people would reference it in their fics, instead of using a made-up company, the same way that Scribe used the real RealDoll in her "My Boyfriend Is Inflatable" fics (and if RealDoll would make more boydolls, they'd probably get some business from people clicking on the links in her stories).

This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie

Go here and check out the links on yaoi and slash. My personal favorite is this one. Quote: "Slash written by women is defacto an extension of women's sexuality, not gay male sexuality. If Slash writers were pressured into writing their characters purely as gay men in gay relationships, I'd never read it, just as I don't read gay porn novels."

Have it done in the next week.

Very interesting. Thanks for the link. *has to check it out more thoroughly before she can give a more in-depth thanks* But mostly, thanks for the deadline. It is muchly appreciated! *loves when her friends have the same deadline issues that she does, because they understand her needs so well*

I used to read het - a lot of it. And then . . . I read my first slash story. Now I can't read het. It's like my brain has been reprogrammed. It worries me. Slash is evol.

Get it done!! I hate it when shit's hanging over my head.

Gee, I just realized that I had nothing to add to this thread.

And it's official: blackchaps has just become the first person to answer this post who ISN'T getting a prize! Way to go, Blackchaps! :-D

Perhaps you can also talk about the unique qualities of slash in that nearly 99.99% of its writers are women (generally het) and not gay men. Of course, one must also realize that most people who read fic are women as well, so the numbers make sense. I've rarely come across male writers in my years of writing fanfic, and one of the ones I did know wrote femslash.

Slash is such an interesting topic for a paper, too, because most people in the "real world" don't understand its popularity with readers.

You might also like to talk about the different genres of slash, such as S&M, bondage, spankings, etc, and as they pertain to different fandoms. I also think it's interesting to find that some people think slash is all the same, when it's quite varied. And you might also discuss the "squicks" of the genre: I, for instance, don't quite understand the popularity of either RPS or Harry Potter slash. But that's me.

Great topic; you have one week to finish or you get PerpSlammed.

The female-to-male ratio thing is definitely going in, though I do happen to know a great guy slash writer (sexuality unknown, but I would doubt that he's straight from what he says, as opposed to writes) in the Diagnosis: Murder fandom.

As for the rest of it, some of that is going in, but in the main context which is--as I told wneleh--"Why is slash considered to be so 'deviant' when other, far more obviously anti-canon pairings AND 'uncommon' sexual practices are considered to be totally 'normal'?"

The squicks I'll get into another time. My professor already chose slash as a topic from a long list that included--among other things--a study on the relative deviance of various kinks and fetishes, and perceived by those in kink/fetish communities. So, considering he'd never even heard of fanfic before, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that he doesn't want to hear about the (very) few things that squick me out. ;-)

And dude: one week to finish, or I get PerpSlammed? Like, by Elliot? And that's supposed to motivate me to be a GOOD student? :-D

well... I don't know really... I'm trying to get this in before I go to work... Um... What's your favourite slash pairing (aside from Jim/Blair) and why?

Ooh, a brain teaser! Thanks!

WARNING: Spoilers for X-3 reside within. Not big ones, and there are alternate endings, but there are SPOILERS in here!

Hmm...my favorite non-J/B slash pairing...that's a good question. Maybe Jack/Daniel from Stargate, or Steve/Jesse from Diagnosis: Murder, or Scott (Cyclops)/Logan (Wolverine) from X-Men? And funnily enough, two out of three of these shows have a popular fanon pairing that ain't never gonna happen; that's even more unlikely than canon slash (canon slash outside of The Sentinel notwithstanding). Stargate has the shippers (sorry, but have y'all SEEN the "other" Sam? No WAY!*), D:M has the ever popular "No, really, this time the BOTW WASN'T a total psycho bitch! And she didn't die!" pairing (with Steve; poor Jesse is always left all to his lonesome.), and movieverse X-Men has Logan/Rogue, which...well, let's see. a) She's got Bobby, and I really don't think she's dumb enough to make Logan kill Bobby for love. b) while I really do think he has a "thing" for her, I also think that he knows it's a fantasy; the way he talks to her now is much more like a big brother or father would. And c) Honestly? Before the "cure" they never could have made it with her needing to be clothed all the time and him with, y'know, the claws that SHRED stuff, and after the cure, I just don't see him looking at her the same way for a while, because I really don't think he believes that she did it for herself.

*Not to mention, since one of the rants against slash is always "There's no canon evidence!"...people, would someone PLEASE tell me how there are people who are actually openminded (whatever that means these days) who honestly see more UST between Daniel and JANET than between Daniel and JACK? I mean, dude! One is the flirting you do with your doctor who you're a little bit scared of, and the other is the blushing, stammering adorableness you do with the guy you truly love. Not to mention the glasses thing! *huffs*

Oh yeah, and as for WHY I like those pairings...I think it's because all of them (except for Scott/Logan, which I freely admit is totally fanon, except for the flirty snarkiness and rivalry between them) work just as well or better as a couple than they do as not a couple. Jack and Daniel are way closer than friends should be, given their backgrounds, histories (two different things), current positions, etc., and Steve and Jesse...honestly, I see that one very much as a slow falling in love, much the way I see The Sentinel (except that I still don't get how anyone sees gen in The Sentinel). (But the Steve/Jesse thing only works if you ignore the last movie.) And I'm a sucker for the whole "slowly falling in love" thing. :-)

Wow, thanks akina! That was way helpful! *is making her list and checking it twice (and no, [Unknown LJ tag] still isn't on there!)*

This message is to let you know that, while I may be six months late (ok, fine, six months and a week), I am now managing to actually pay off all the people I offered prezzies to for helping me. Therefore, kindly respond to this message with directions to gift ideas (I accept LJ posts/profiles, website "wish lists", and direct begging).

Abyssinia,
Barrie